My WSMB Rich Guy Build

[The Nutty Professor]

I was bored out of me mind when I started this and it’s taken awhile to get what you see. I was asked by someone somewhere what would I do will money no object to a Mid. Remember this is my bike not your’s I put it here for you to look at and if you want criticize or steal idea’s go for it. I will not fight over it. I got the idea from an old racing series call Formula USA. There was a bike on the grid call the “YamaMonster” and it was the best example I’ve seen of make it big and race it till it blows up. This is my “PocketMonster”. I was going to use a X18 as the base bike I was going to use it because more of you like that bike that was going to by my one concession to the project but my preferred bike the X22 is what I will finally use so why should I do a build up on something else. I’m starting with the frame and will section out each portion of the project as I see how I would build it. Love it or hate it here it is.


(DREAM X FRAME)

1. STRIP THE BIKE DOWN TO THE FRAME AND BEAD BLAST THE FRAME AND SWINGARM. THE POWDER COAT FRAME AND SWINGARM FLAT BLACK. THE BARE FRAME IS PICTURE BELOW SO YOU CAN KIND OF SEE WHERE I'M GOING.

2. START WITH THE X22 STOCK FRAME.

3. CUT OFF THE REAR SUB-FRAME AND REPLACE WITH A ONE PIECE CARBON FIBER UNIT. ONE PIECE MEANING THE BODY WORK (SEAT) IS THE SUB-FRAME.

4. AT THE BASE OF THE SUB-FRAME NEAR THE TANK UNDER YOUR BUTT THAT WILL BE THE LOCATION FOR THE FUEL TANK. SEE DREAM ENGINE FOR GAS TANK MOVE.

5. ENGINE CRADLE AND FAIRING BRACKETS REMOVED AND REPLACED WITH CARBON FIBER MOLDED UNIT. IF THIS PROVES PROBLEMATIC AN ALUMINUM UNIT WILL DO.

6. HEAD TUBE REMOVED AND REPLACED WITH A THICKER UNIT. THE NEW HEAD TUBE IS BORED TO ACCEPT A LARGER ROLLER BEARING UNIT.

6. HEAD ROLLER BEARINGS WOULD BE AIRCRAFT GRADE CERAMIC.

8. SWINGARM PIVOT WOULD ALSO BE REPLACED WITH A CERAMIC UNIT.

9. THE SWINGARM WOULD BE REPLACED COMPLETELY WITH A UNIT BUILT BY SPONDON ENGINEERING IN ALUMINUM OR A BANANA SHAPED SWINGARM MADE BY (???CARBON WHO DOES IT???) OR THE SWINGARM OFF THE FRAME I HAVE PICTURED BELOW.

10. REAR SET BASE UNITS WOULD BE CNC MACHINED FROM ALUMINUM. NOTE THAT THE REARSET ON A X22 DOES NOT ATTACH TO THE FRAME. IT ATTACHES TO A SEPARATE HANGER SYSTEM WHICH IS THEN BOLTED TO THE FRAME. IN MY OPINION WITH ALLOWS FOR GREATER FREEDOM TO PLAY AROUND WITH THE POSITION OF THE REARSET.

11. REARSET CNC MACHINED FROM ALUMINUM ALONG WITH THE SHIFT LINKAGE.

12. REAR BRAKE PEDAL MOVED TO DIFFERENT LOCATION (SEE BRAKING SYSTEM).

13. FRAME SLIDER MOUNTS WELDED ONTO FRAME AT SELECTED POINTS.

14. REAR SHOCK (MY NOLEEN K2 ACTIVATE SUSPENSION SHOCK. SEE PICTURE BELOW) MOUNT MODIFIED TO ALLOW MOUNTING AT DIFFERENT ANGLES AND HEIGHTS. THIS WILL ALLOW ME TO ADJUST THE REAR SUSPENSION FOR DIFFERENT TRACK CONDITIONS. NO MAJOR ADJUSTMENTS JUST SMALL INCREMENTAL ADJUSTMENTS THAT HAVE MARKINGS TO SHOW THE POSITION OF EACH PIVOT POINT.

NEXT THE ENGINE?????

[The Nutty Professor]

Forgot to post the picture. Dee...Dee...Deehunter1

[The Nutty Professor]

(Dream Engine)

1. Honda Gy6 4 Valve Head 125cc Or 150cc With A Magnesium Lower Case.

2. Transmission Converted To 4spd Or 5spd Dry Clutch If Possible.

3. Megasquirt Efi.

4. Marine Grade High Pressure Fuel Pump For Efi System.

5. Iconel Or Titanium Header With Yamaha Exup Style Exhaust Valve. Restricted At Lowe Throttle Opening But Gradually Allows Free Flow As Throttle Opens.

6. Carbon Fiber Exhaust Pipe With Titanium Baffles.

7. Ram-air To Boost Incoming Air Pressure For Efi.

8. Lightened And Balance Crank Shaft. Falicon Super Crank

9. Either Knife Edge Connecting Rod Or Titanium Knife Edge.

10. Titanium Valves.

11. Titanium Valve Spring

12. Ported, Polished, Flow Benched Cylinder Head.

13. Water Cooled Would Be Nice But Decent Oil Cooling System Will Do.

14. Crankcase Breather System Which Returns Blown Oil To The Sump.

15. Slipper Clutch On 5spd Transmission.

16. High Output Electronically Monitored Ignition System (coil)

17. Flat Gel Cell Battery To Run Electrical System.

18. Rare Earth Metal Alternator In A Aluminum Casing.

19. All Stressed Nuts And Bolts Titanium.

20. All Non-stressed Nuts And Bolts Replaced With Aircraft Grade Aluminum Nuts And Bolts.

21. Right-side Case Cover Made Of Magnesium.

22. Left-side Case Cover Made From Carbon Fiber.

23. Valve Cover Made From Carbon Fiber.

24. Inline Cool-can System For Fuel Delivery.

25. Nikasil Coated Cylinder.

26. Short Skirt Teflon Or Dlc Coated Piston. Don’t Know If Dlc Is Possible For This Application?

27. Two Ring Piston With Titanium Wrist Pin.

28. Location Under The Gas Tank Becomes The Ram-air Box For The Efi Fuel System. Air Box Is Made From Two Pieces Of Carbon Fiber. The Main Piece Is A Large Air-box Section With A Second Trapdoor On The Top Which Is The Second Piece. The Trapdoor Allows Removal Of The Air Filter Which Is A K& N Unit (undecided At This Time But The Smallest Flat Unit They Make). The Trapdoor Is Then Bolted Into Place And Sealed With A Silicone Gasket.

29. The Ram-air Intake Runs From The Intake Scoop At The Front Of The X22 Fairing Around Both Sides Of The Head Tube (a Upside-down “y”) And Entering The Air-box From Two Location On The Front Of The Box. This Design May Cause To Much Turbulence And Would Have To Be Modified. Also This Routing Might Be To Long.

FRONT SUSPENSION ANS BRAKES NEXT

[swanni06]

Dude you should be a mid bike designer. Or build them for race teams!You have a love for these that I sure have never seen before,well you and Swheels.I tend to look on here for all the posts you two make and its mindboggling the things you two come up with!The research you guys do is amazing along with your findings.You guys along with Red have made this a very enjoyable site to come find info from.Its like Hotrod magazine online but for midbikes lol.Very cool guys,keep up the good work!

[redryderaus]

Nice wish list, TNP. A couple of thoughts on the dream engine:

7/ Even at the speeds this dream bike would be capable of ram-air is only a marketing gimmick. Wind tunnel testing has shown you either need a HUGE intake (which would cause far too much drag) or you need to be doing 240kmh+ (at sea level. Even faster at higher altitudes) to achieve any pressure boost in the still-air box. The advantage you gain from ducting air from the front of the bike into a still-air box is: a) You are feeding cold, higher-density air to the engine (more oxygen) and b) having smooth flowing air into the engine intake increases the amount of air it will suck in to the cylinder (again, more oxygen).

17/ Forget a gel-cell battery, they're too heavy. Go with a 4cell lithium-polymer battery with a 12V regulator. A 4000mAh lipo and regulator would weigh about 350g. A similar capacity gel-cell would be at least 3 times that.

18/ Scrap the alternator and run a total loss system. An alternator will put a load on the engine sapping all-important power.

29/ I'd route your intakes to the rear of the still-air box and run the air through spiral baffles at the entrance to the box to reduce turbulence in the region of your tuned-length velocity stack.

When I win the lottery I'll build your dream bike for you (5% slower than mine, of course) banana

Cheers,

red

[redryderaus]

Oh, and I'd add a supercharger to the engine and really get that puppy moving.

Cheers,

red

[Blitz$M.Inc.$]

well thats pretty good glenn
your pb is gonna cost more than a busa lol
150 for powder coating sounds ok i guess
thats a lot of work to strip it down
glenn does that motor share our mount points?
and what was it in originally?

[The Nutty Professor]

Nice wish list, TNP. A couple of thoughts on the dream engine:

7/ Even at the speeds this dream bike would be capable of ram-air is only a marketing gimmick. Wind tunnel testing has shown you either need a HUGE intake (which would cause far too much drag) or you need to be doing 240kmh+ (at sea level. Even faster at higher altitudes) to achieve any pressure boost in the still-air box. The advantage you gain from ducting air from the front of the bike into a still-air box is: a) You are feeding cold, higher-density air to the engine (more oxygen) and b) having smooth flowing air into the engine intake increases the amount of air it will suck in to the cylinder (again, more oxygen).

17/ Forget a gel-cell battery, they're too heavy. Go with a 4cell lithium-polymer battery with a 12V regulator. A 4000mAh lipo and regulator would weigh about 350g. A similar capacity gel-cell would be at least 3 times that.

18/ Scrap the alternator and run a total loss system. An alternator will put a load on the engine sapping all-important power.

29/ I'd route your intakes to the rear of the still-air box and run the air through spiral baffles at the entrance to the box to reduce turbulence in the region of your tuned-length velocity stack.

When I win the lottery I'll build your dream bike for you (5% slower than mine, of course) banana

Cheers,

red

When I say ram-air I thinking more along the lines of what you said about routing in cleaner cooler air. That can only be a good thing?

I thought about the lithium but even with the experience I have with electronic surveillance equipment it still geared toward old power supplies. I wasn't sure if the lithium option was feasable. Now that you worked out a route to implement it that section will change.

As for the alternator I was thinking about the coming (Or is it current CRS) rule in WSB that the bike must be able to start without external assistance. That being said for a race bike I would prefer a total loss system. Oh and the fact that the alternator would cost half the price of an X bike made me all giggly insidebanana.

Question? If you had a spiral baffle why would you still have to run the intake through the rear? That seems like a more complex solution than just the baffle itself? Longer intake runners, finding the room to go basically up and over the airbox then turn back. I'm trying to visualize this...if the intake starts at the nose of the bike, then flows back and down to the airbox which sits on top of the downdraft carb the easiest route is through the front? But if you wanted a rear entry you would have a "J" turn in the intake? Am I missing something? Red I think you found a major hole in may race bike package? If the pieces don't fit the clock won't run.

Oh and I thought about stealing the Yamaha velocity stacks you know the electronically controlled jobsrock. Yeah right...at the rate I'm throwing electronics on the bike the battery lithium or not will weight more than the bike.

X19er ONE SIMPLE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION. IF I BUILD IT WILL YOU RIDE IT? That wasn't an answer was it? But I bet you can answer my questioncheers.

[The Nutty Professor]

Where I am most people just powder coat their wheels. Living on the coast the humidity plays hell with raw aluminum and closer to the beach the salt air will rust plastic. For a powder coated rim they want $200 per rim if they have to strip and bead blast them. If you've stripped the rim it goes down to $175. If you strip and bead blast, which most people don't have the ability to do, it's $150. So your price is smokin' and if it's done right your frame will give the bike a million dollar look.

[The Nutty Professor]

well thats pretty good glenn
your pb is gonna cost more than a busa lol
150 for powder coating sounds ok i guess
thats a lot of work to strip it down
glenn does that motor share our mount points?
and what was it in originally?

Blitz I been so busy just trying to find one I haven't even looked to see if it's straight bolt on. With the potential of the motor I really didn't care. If it will fit between the body panel's and the front wheel and swingarm, I'll make the sucker it's own silver plated motor mounts. As for the price. I see a hundred Busa's on the street, but there'll only be one of minechief_rocka.motorbike

[swheels]

Man you get that bike together.That should spank any tagawa powered 2 wheeler.That motor is the tipical 4 stroke motor for scooters.Sometimes referred to as the gy6 if i'm not mistaken.

[The Nutty Professor]

Man you get that bike together.That should spank any tagawa powered 2 wheeler.That motor is the tipical 4 stroke motor for scooters.Sometimes referred to as the gy6 if i'm not mistaken.

The only problem I see is they are all auto and the 5spd conversion would almost certainly have to done to get the most out of it.

[The Nutty Professor]

Now that everyone (Read Harley riders) wants something powder coated because it wears well the price has gone up.

[redryderaus]

I thought about the lithium but even with the experience I have with electronic surveillance equipment it still geared toward old power supplies. I wasn't sure if the lithium option was feasable. Now that you worked out a route to implement it that section will change.

Yep. Lithium technology and pricing is now at the point that I will not use anything else. I use lipo exclusively in my RC aircraft and helicopters.

As for the alternator I was thinking about the coming (Or is it current CRS) rule in WSB that the bike must be able to start without external assistance. That being said for a race bike I would prefer a total loss system. Oh and the fact that the alternator would cost half the price of an X bike made me all giggly inside.

If you want to run e-start, that still isn't an issue. A 4000mAh lipo would still have enough capacity for several starts and a pretty long race. In fact, the biggest power user in the system is the fuel pump. You might need to have two battery packs, one to run while the other is recharging. And you can pick up 14.8V 4000mAh lipo's for $25US. A charger will cost you $70US. Cheap as. :)

http://www.rcmegashop.com/product.php?productid=16849&cat=10&page=1

http://www.rcmegashop.com/product.php?productid=16370&cat=2&page=1

Question? If you had a spiral baffle why would you still have to run the intake through the rear? That seems like a more complex solution than just the baffle itself? Longer intake runners, finding the room to go basically up and over the airbox then turn back. I'm trying to visualize this...if the intake starts at the nose of the bike, then flows back and down to the airbox which sits on top of the downdraft carb the easiest route is through the front? But if you wanted a rear entry you would have a "J" turn in the intake? Am I missing something? Red I think you found a major hole in may race bike package? If the pieces don't fit the clock won't run.

With a large enough airbox it wouldn't matter where you had the intake. The critical thing is to have the air as still as possible. A larger volume means lower air velocity within the box, thus reducing turbulence and giving a smooth flow through the v-stack and inlet port. The spiral baffle allows the air to change from higher duct velocity to the lower box velocity without creating too much turbulence. And you must ensure your box has no sharp corners. Large radius curves are the go here.

Oh and I thought about stealing the Yamaha velocity stacks you know the electronically controlled jobsrock. Yeah right...at the rate I'm throwing electronics on the bike the battery lithium or not will weight more than the bike.

You mean the variable length stacks? Why not? Just connect two lipo's in parallel to give you 8000mAh capacity and you can run all the electronics you want and still only weigh about 650g.

Cheers,

red

[The Nutty Professor]

Yep. Lithium technology and pricing is now at the point that I will not use anything else. I use lipo exclusively in my RC aircraft and helicopters.



If you want to run e-start, that still isn't an issue. A 4000mAh lipo would still have enough capacity for several starts and a pretty long race. In fact, the biggest power user in the system is the fuel pump. You might need to have two battery packs, one to run while the other is recharging. And you can pick up 14.8V 4000mAh lipo's for $25US. A charger will cost you $70US. Cheap as. :)

http://www.rcmegashop.com/product.php?productid=16849&cat=10&page=1

http://www.rcmegashop.com/product.php?productid=16370&cat=2&page=1



With a large enough airbox it wouldn't matter where you had the intake. The critical thing is to have the air as still as possible. A larger volume means lower air velocity within the box, thus reducing turbulence and giving a smooth flow through the v-stack and inlet port. The spiral baffle allows the air to change from higher duct velocity to the lower box velocity without creating too much turbulence. And you must ensure your box has no sharp corners. Large radius curves are the go here.



You mean the variable length stacks? Why not? Just connect two lipo's in parallel to give you 8000mAh capacity and you can run all the electronics you want and still only weigh about 650g.

Cheers,

red

LOLOLOL you know Red I was trying to whine about how hard some of this would be so I could put it out of reach and simplify it, but you're not making it easy with your solutions LOLOL. Anyway the airbox was going to be as big as I had room to fit and I was going to model it after a existing airbox (Honda Yamaha Suzuki) from a 600 and scale it down. Literally use the same shape and shrink it. It won't be easy but with enough time it's doable. cheers

[redryderaus]

There are no unsolvable problems, mate. It's just a matter of calling on the collective knowledge of everyone here. You're a big help to us with your search for bits. I'm definitely looking into the Megasquirt. An injector from a 600 4-cyl should be a good size. :)

An easy way to create your still-air box is to carve it from blue styrene foam like that used for house insulation, sand it smooth, cover in carbon or fibreglass cloth & epoxy resin (NOT polyester fibreglassing resin), then simply dissolve the foam with acetone. This is how I'll be doing the air box for the X1.25 . It makes it easy to get the largest volume possible for the available space.

Oh, and make sure there is enough space between the end of your v-stack and the rear wall of the box (at least your tuned intake length) to avoid unwanted pulse reflections off the wall.


Go to the chatbox if you want to have a natter :)

Cheers,

red

[swheels]

Oh yeah keep talkin fellas cause i'm soaking it all in.I love knowledge.banana

[Blitz$M.Inc.$]

hey red, im thinking this air box thing is pretty technical
is the gain substancial?
this is my intake, its a ghetto-ram induction
it makes a cool sucking sound :)
does my system suck or is it adquate?

[redryderaus]

Errmmm...Pretty basic, Blitz hangloose

Keep in mind, what Nutty and I are talking about here is finding the last shreds of performance. A properly designed still-air box will give you a boost. But on it's own it probably wouldn't be worth the effort.

However: In combination with everything else that can be done to extract power from these motors it would be an important part of the entire setup. It is as important as designing your exhaust system. After all, it's pointless getting the spent gas out of the cylinder if you can't replace it with the maximum amount of fresh fuel/air mix. :)

A MotoGP or WSBK engine is not developed on one component in isolation. They are both a sum of all their components and that is where they draw their performance from.

That is what Nutty and I are talking about. Putting it all together for maximum performance. Every one of Nutty's specs on their own would not result in any drastic improvement. The sort of performance we are thinking about doesn't come cheap either in $$$ or time. It involves a lot of theory backed up with even more testing. And you record the result, and try something else. It might work, it might not. But then you remember a result you had previously, so you change something else and see a measurable gain. That is the art of the tuner and it is where you get most of your satisfaction from. Of course, seeing some good race results will always put a smile on your face. banana

Cheers,

red

[redryderaus]

Reading my post, I realise I meant to say "Any one of Nutty's specs on it's own would not result in any drastic improvement". My apologies for any confusion.

Anyway to get back to your intake system, Blitz. I realise your post was tongue-in-cheek. But it is worth looking at from a "budget" tuner point of view.

First of all, you have the carby/airfilter facing forward. This is good. You have your air intake out in fresh, cool air. Remember what I said about cool air being more dense and therefore richer in oxygen? You have achieved that. Having the carby/airfilter facing backwards (the more typical setup) and therefore above the hot engine means the air being drawn in is warmer and less dense so that means less oxygen.

More oxygen means you can add more fuel to the mix and therefore get more power. The opposite is true if you have less oxygen. This is why a properly tuned engine will produce more power at sea level (denser air) than the same engine properly tuned to run at higher altitude (less dense air). It is something that is carefully considered with aircraft engines, both piston and turbine. It is also why engine mechanics love it when raceday is cool but dry (high humidity reduces oxygen). It means they can add more fuel either via larger jets (carby) or changing the fuel mapping (EFI).

Yes this is all technical. So is getting real performance from any internal combustion engine. I'll shut up now. :)

Cheers,

red

[The Nutty Professor]

If there is one thing I've learned it has to be that no one special "Unobtainium " thing on a race bike can work if the rest of the bike doesn't work as a package. The includes the rider. Yes the rider can ride around or compensate for a problem, but one small mistake at 10/10th's and the bike and rider are on the ground or flying through the air. This list of wishes is always changing but the general concept of each part never changes unless I run across a new concept that wow's me. That wow factor is easy to achieve...I'm easy when it comes to shiney go-fast thingy'shunter1. Any way here's the front end. I know I left some things out but here you go.

(DREAM FRONT END)

1. USD FORKS WITH ADJUSTMENT FOR DAMPENING AND REBOUND. WITH DLC ON THE SLIDER PORTION OF THE TUBE. I WOULD LOVE A SET OF OHLINS BUT FINDING OHLIN CARTRIDGES THAT WILL FIT WHATEVER SET I SETTLE ON WILL WORK. I DON’T THINK A GAS CHARGED SET IS NEEDED. THE SPEED THIS BIKE CAN ACHIEVE I DON’T THINK WOULD EVER EXPLOIT THE EXTRA PERFORMANCE GAS WOULD GIVE.

2. 12" FRONT CARBON FIBER RIM. SIZE YET TO BE DETERMINED.

3. FULL FLOATING DUAL BRAKE DISC. EIGHT INCHES

4. STEEL OR KEVLAR BRAIDED BRAKE LINES.

5. CARBON FIBER CLIP-ON HANDLE BARS USING AN ALUMINUM CLAMP.

6. QUARTER TURN BREMBO THROTTLE.

7. BREMBO FRONT BRAKE LEVER AND MASTER CYLINDER.

8. BREMBO HYDRAULIC CLUTCH.

9. BREMBO DUAL RADIAL CALIPERS. ONE MAY BE ENOUGH BUT I WOULD LIKE TO START WITH TWO AND BACKUP FROM THERE. CAN YOU TELL I LIKE BREMBO SWAG!

10. ALUMINUM TRIPLE CLAMPS WITH A TITANIUM STEERING STEM. CONCENTRIC ADJUSTOR IN THE TOP TRIPLE CLAMP FOR RAKE. WISH I HAD A PICTURE OF THIS TO SHOW WHAT I’M TALKING ABOUT. I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE I SCRATCHING THEIR HEAD ON THIS ONE. THE ONE PHOTO I DO HAVE IS OF THE ILMOR MOTOGP BIKE BUT THE ADJUSTOR IS ACTUALLY IN THE STEERING STEM UNDER THE CLAMP. SEE BELOW PHOTO 2.

11. ELECTRONIC TACH AND OIL TEMP GAUGES WITH A SWITCH TO CHANGE FUEL MAPPING ON THE FLY (LIKE THE NEW GSXR-1000). I WILL PUT UP SOME EYE CANDY ON THESE.

12. CARBON FIBER DASH PANEL TO HOLD THE GAUGES. AND THIS.

13. CARBON FIBER OR TITANIUM DASH BRACKET AND FAIRING STAY. AND THIS.

14. ADJUSTABLE FRONT FENDER. ONE GOOD POINT OF THIS FENDER IS THAT IT CAN BE MOVED UP OR DOWN TO ADJUST THE AIR FLOW TO THE OIL COOLER.

NOT SO LONG BUT I HOPE THE PICTURES MAKE UP FOR IT. IF THEY DON’T POST I’LL PUT A PHOTOBUCKET LINK ON THEM.

[The Nutty Professor]

Here are two photo's that won't upload. Check out the carbon fiber air intake and the carbon fiber fairing stay.

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z216/NuttyProfessorPS/gsvr008.jpg

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z216/NuttyProfessorPS/hondamotogp001.jpg

[The Nutty Professor]

Red or Swheels I didn't want to start a new thread to ask this. What do you guys think about changing the internal parts? By this I mean do you think it's worth it to put money on trick parts. I am of the opinion that the money is better spent elsewhere for now. If the outside parts (CDI, DD carbs, electronic ignotion ect) really start to punish the internals then it's time to work on the inside. twocents

[Blitz$M.Inc.$]

i did the surrounding parts before any motor work

[redryderaus]

Red or Swheels I didn't want to start a new thread to ask this. What do you guys think about changing the internal parts? By this I mean do you think it's worth it to put money on trick parts. I am of the opinion that the money is better spent elsewhere for now. If the outside parts (CDI, DD carbs, electronic ignotion ect) really start to punish the internals then it's time to work on the inside. twocents

Tough question, Nutty. As said before, none of this stuff works in isolation.

Here's how I would go about it:

1/ Leave the motor stock initally. If you are starting with a 110cc X-bike I'd consider removing the 110cc without even starting it and selling it. Use the money to fund a 125cc or 140cc engine and fit that from the get go, there are more go-fast bits available to suit them.

2/ Fit prog ign or at least one of the "race" CDI units that will remove the rev limiter of the standard unit.

3/ Fit performance exhaust. If you keep it in, say, three sections (header, pipe, muffler) then you can change each section as needed depending on the engine mods you make. Once you have your exhaust tuned correctly for your mod level you can minimise performance loss from joints by making it one piece.

4/ Fit DD carb. Again you can change your mounting adapter and v-stack (tuning the length) as you make engine mods. This is also the time to build your still-air box. You can use the DD carb down the track as an EFI throttle body just by making an adapter to mount it and the injector to the engine intake port.

5/ Fit high-comp piston. At this stage you could do a BBK if you want, but keep in mind you may need to increase bore of carby and exhaust to get the most benefit from the BBK. You could also find benefit from changing your ignition curve at this stage, BBK or not.

6/ Fit big-valve ported head with high performance camshaft. Again, this will require changes to both intake, exhaust and ignition curve to get the most benefit.

7/ Fit EFI/electronic engine management. I left this until last as on it's own it is the most complicated tuning mod you can make and is a big learning curve. Gain tuning experience from the more basic mods first, get to know your motor well then move on to this "ultimate" tuning mod.

I guess what I'm saying is don't rush into trying to build the ultimate motor. Doing so will only lead to frustration. There's nothing worse than making a heap of mods all at once then finding the motor won't even run. Where do you start the debugging process, especially if you have a lot of electronics?? Make a "small" change, get that working, then make another change.

And always keep in mind that getting the bike handling & braking well is worth more than extracting the last n-th of performance from the motor. Even if you are only interested in straight-line drag racing it's vital that you can put all your available power to ground and keep the bike under control.

I know I'm "preaching to the converted" on much of this, but I cannot stress enough how important it is to get everything working as a package. :)

Cheers,

red

[The Nutty Professor]

i did the surrounding parts before any motor work

Didn't mean to leave you out Blitz. So you agree or disagree? Would you change the way you did or had to do your upgrades?

[Blitz$M.Inc.$]

i would still go as i did
you cannot put a 125 in there with a stock carb and exhaust
well you could but that would suk
i went on the weakest link theory
carb, plug, intake, coil, cdi (wrong), exhaust, sprockets, then motor

[xxlarge420]

Nutty, that is by far the sweetest and most custom midbike i have ever seen. is everything u stated in the thread in that bike in the pictures or is all that info what u would do if u could do anything to a midbike. with money being no option.

[The Nutty Professor]

Dude if the picture you're talking about is the one in my avatar...that's the 2008 Honda 800cc MotoGP bike. I wish my Mid had just 1! of the trick parts ot does. This thread was excercise in "What If"? I got some good ideas out of here. But if you mean the photo's at the beginning of the thread. The blue one is the standard X22 and the other is the Daymak built X22. They call it something else. But after a little research I find that their bike is a bunch of parts thrown onto the bike. Yes there are a few pieces they had to fabricate but they could have been done by someone with the amatuer skills I have. I don't think any of the parts where thought out they put on it what they thought looked "Cool" twocents After riding my bike I can see what people were saying about the X22 rake. It's steep. The front is twitchy but now that I'm use to it or almost it's not a problem. Before I thought about turning and the bike was there. This thing steers quick. Adding the 13" or 14" whatever it is would put you in the dirt quick I think on a track. The only saving grace might be the width of the rear tire. That might slow you down enough t save you. I thought about changing the rake then realised I can do that with so so precision by changing the sidewall height on the tire. I could go on for days with this stuff so I'll stop now.

[kevin@holeshotz]

Question: Why brembo? You can get brakes that stop better for cheaper. Brembo brakes on minis are not all they are cracked up to be. They do not fade, but they do not expell the pressure. It builds up and up until they lock up. What brembo system are you looking at buying?

[The Nutty Professor]

The Radial set. One major reason is a larger selection replacement pads. If you pads aren't releasing (Anybody) it's usually because of dirty equipment. Race bikes have to be cleaned regularly, but I'm sure you know that. If Brembo's where bad they wouldn't fill most of the grid on MotoGP and WSB

[kevin@holeshotz]

The Radial set. One major reason is a larger selection replacement pads. If you pads aren't releasing (Anybody) it's usually because of dirty equipment. Race bikes have to be cleaned regularly, but I'm sure you know that. If Brembo's where bad they wouldn't fill most of the grid on MotoGP and WSB

The mini brembo brakes have troubles releasing the pressure, the big calipers are great. Check out http://www.mmracing.biz/perfprt.htm

Cam has the only real success full brembo kit for minis. The rest have the pressure build up problem i talked about in my last post.

I understand the pad selection. You should look into moto-master. They are producing some brakes parallel to the brembo stuff.