The Professors Tire Lab

[The Nutty Professor]

I started a test on friday with a few things I had handy in the garage. The chemicals I used for my first test are Penske Gas Treatment, brake fluid, charcoal lighter fluid, and acetone (Nail polish). I first cleaned the rubber (see photo) in Greased Lightning for 1 hour (The mixture was 1 cup water 1/3 cup Greased Lightning). I then placed the rubber samples in the chemicals after rinsing with plain water. One rubber sample was a stiff rubber used as a spacer for a speedo clamp. The other is a piece of rubber tubing which is standard for a transmission oil cooler system (see photos).

[The Nutty Professor]

After the first step I placed the samples in their test chnemicals. The first chemical is Penske Gas Treatment, then brake fluid, lighter fluid, and acetone. One piece of each sample was placed in a container on 09/07/07 at 3:00pm

[The Nutty Professor]

DAY 2

Left each sample in it's jar and using a screwdriver attempted to see if the rubber could be punctured by the metal tip. The only sample that seemed to show any affect was the Penske Gas Treatment. It felt as if the square piece was a bit softer? No other rubber in any sample seemed affected.

[The Nutty Professor]

DAY 3

Press test on samples yielded a little surprise. The Penske sample was extremely soft. I was able to push my fingernail through the square rubber sample. The other sample did not appear to be affected. None of the other samples showed any signs of softening. So far the penske seems very promising. Note each chemical sample is a straight chemical and the test piece is totally (Or nearly submerged). As I acquire more test chemicals I will widen the test field.

[Midbike Racer]

repthumbsup

[The Nutty Professor]

Thanks...rep is great but the fun factor is way better.cowboy

[swheels]

can't wait to see the results.Great!

[The Nutty Professor]

I started this with what I had in hand then I realized that I really needed tire rubber. I realized this while I was riding my road bike and was dying from the heat. I was looking down and saw some rubber from a blown tire. I stopped and picked it up. I realise the rubber is harder than the tires we use but if the chemicals will soften it it will work on our tires. I want something that will work on the hardest rubber we might run into like the tire Swheels had so much trouble with a Blac Hills. I will also be adding a few more chemicals to the mix. Yes the pun was intended. I also remembered later that some rubbers are designed to resist the chemicals I'm trying to use. That's probably why the hose is showing no result. The first test was just to see what could happen now I want to really see with tire rubber.

[Blitz$M.Inc.$]

man i bet you were one of those kids that took all their toys apart just to see how they worked, i did too
whatever happened with that kid and the wrecked x19 (test subject)
awsome cause and effect demostrations tho
i have some scooter tires here
find a promising chemical and i will do a full blown test

[swheels]

Heres something funny.I was trying belt reconditioner that stuff you spray on when the car belts start squealing.That stuff makes the belt sticky i use to spray that on my 1/5 rcbikes.Work good for a little while till the little tires got covered up with all the fine grit from the track.LOL

[The Nutty Professor]

I have belt dressing in my storage cabinet I'll try that too. Yeah Blitz I pissed my dad off more than oncebanana tearing something apart. It got to the point that he would bring home old army junk and let me go at it. I even took a reusable LAW tube firing mechanism apart and put it back together. I then had that for a toy until I pointed it hunter1at some MP's driving by and they almost shizzled themselves. Any way I'll start the testing again this weekend or my weekend which starts friday.

[redryderaus]

Great idea using the rubber from the blown tire. I don't know about the US highways, but here in Oz you can't go more than a couple of KM's without seeing sizeable pieces of truck retread on the side of the highway. I'll have to grab me some! :)

Using something like that would allow you to keep a control sample which would not be subjected to any of your test chemicals. Makes it easier to quantify the result.

Cheers,

red

[The Nutty Professor]

Great idea using the rubber from the blown tire. I don't know about the US highways, but here in Oz you can't go more than a couple of KM's without seeing sizeable pieces of truck retread on the side of the highway. I'll have to grab me some! :)

Using something like that would allow you to keep a control sample which would not be subjected to any of your test chemicals. Makes it easier to quantify the result.

Cheers,

red


No different here. If you go more than a mile without seeing a chunck of tire on the side of the road you're out in the country somewhere. Yeah the piece is big enough that I can test a lot of stuff and have enough to run a second batch to verify the result.

[The Nutty Professor]

Anybody have a chemical they want me to try? If I can get it or it won't break the bank it's in.

[midbiker]

Anybody have a chemical they want me to try? If I can get it or it won't break the bank it's in.
I wonder what something carbonated would do. Like soda. Eat up the tire or soften it? I just remember what it did to a tooth in class when i was younger.

[The Nutty Professor]

Experiment last day. Conclusion: The only chemical that had any effect was the gas treament. The rubber it softened did so to the point I described earlier but has not softened anymore? All the chemicals used will return in the next test. As I said I want the test done on real rubber. I'm using a car compound because it is hard and I think easier to see or feel the change. Motorcycle tires are fairly soft to begin with and the changes may be so little that I can't tell what's going on with the reaction's? I'm looking for containers and chemicals today. And the hunt continueshunter1

[The Nutty Professor]

Well I started the new test finally and I added a few more chemicals. As I give more I will put them in. I went with what I had again working to much to get to Home Depot and buy a few test chemicals.

1. Penske Gas Treatment

2. Brake Fluid

3. Lighter Fluid

4. Power Steering Fluid

5. Prep All Greaser Stripper

6. Prestone Belt Dressing

7. Eagle One Mag Etching Cleaner

Again I cleaned the rubber with water and degreasing soap. Let's see what happen'sdunno

[The Nutty Professor]

And the last few...

[The Nutty Professor]

Well I started the new test finally and I added a few more chemicals. As I give more I will put them in. I went with what I had again working to much to get to Home Depot and buy a few test chemicals.

1. Penske Gas Treatment

2. Brake Fluid

3. Lighter Fluid

4. Power Steering Fluid

5. Prep All Greaser Stripper

6. Prestone Belt Dressing

7. Eagle One Mag Etching Cleaner

Again I cleaned the rubber with water and degreasing soap. Let's see what happen'sdunno


The gas treatment seems to be the bet right now. It softened the hard rubber and it was easy to feel just by poking it with a screwdriver thinking_smilie. The other's don't seem to having much affect, but the second is the lighter fluid. The affect is a lot less but it's there. My one thought about the test is that I'm submerging the rubber completely during the test period so the rubber never dries. To keep the tire completely submerged would be out if the question. One other way, and I read this from the Kart guys, would be to apply the gas treatment using what every you want to apply it. Then wrap the tire in plastic wrap. That would keep the tire wet without submerging it. ?But would the treatment affect the wrapdunno? They apply the treatment with paint rollers or a paint brush.

The process for or race tires would work like this:

1. Buff the tire from edge to edge using sandpaper as you rotate the tire. Doing this while the tire is on the rim on the bike would be the best thing. Run the motor as the rear tire is raised and the tire can roll free. Apply a little throttle and "Buff" the tire taking off/scuffing the top layer.

2. The next step would be to wash the tire using water and a good degreasing soap (Simple Green, Greased Lightning, Fantastic). After a good washing rinse the soap off the tire completely. Allow it to dry.

3. This next step I haven't used or studied much. The Kart guys heat the tires. Some of the methods are this: They use a metal trash can and put the tires in. They then apply heat and the usual method is a hair dryer. A hole is cut in the side big enough to fit the nozzle. The nozzle is pushed in and the edges sealed and the hair dryer is turned on. How long it's left ondunno???

4. After the heat step the treatment is applied and the tires wrapped. The secret (or one of them) is how many days out from a race you start the process and how long you allow the treatment to contact the tire before you stop the process.

The Kart guys also have what they call a rotissorrie (?spelling?) which does it all at the same time. Am I done? Not by a long shot...I'm still working.

[Blitz$M.Inc.$]

lol gourme' wheels lol

[The Nutty Professor]

Look at the post below the pictures go there.

[The Nutty Professor]

Sorry for the second post hit the wrong key and sent it. I then realized I would not have enough time to edit it so I am resending.

DAY 14 popcorn_smilie

The test is just a few hours short of 14 days. Before I start I want you guys to realize this just is not done in racing. I have found what I believe to be a process that would give someone an advantage and I'm putting it out for everyone. What the hell am I thinking dunno . Just Nutty I guess. I have attached photo's regarding the gas treatment chemical. I would list the chemicals in the treatment but they aren't on the container? Doesn't matter because this can be found in Wal-Mart cheap.

Photo 1-Shows that over the 2 week period the rubber expanded approximately 1/8th of and inch. It shows a little more but I would take into account the rubber differences from section to section. Remember this is from a blown tire. I would think half of that would be optimal.

Photo 2-It should be noted that the measurement was taken from the top of the top of the index card down to the line. The writting just describes which sample is which.

Photo 3-Pay not attention to the length of the sample. I just cut off a piece as best I could and realized I would rely on the top to bottm measurement. I'm not sure how visible the differences are to you because I know what it is so it seems obvious to me.

Photo 4-I was able to tear the rubber apart with my hands speechless33 that's a bad thing. But a shorter treatment time would take care of that it just shows the rubber DOES SOFTEN A LOT speechless33 .

I wanted to do a compression test but realized without a durometer or a micrometer (Using some kind of compression tool and measuring the difference) it would not be accurate enough to show what I wanted.

The last portion of this test I can't perform until I have a test vehicle (X22 anyone?). But I would say this if you attempt to use this on your bike you do it at your own risk! I have no idea what will happen once a tire is treated and then placed under pressure (Meaning inflation, the weight of the rider, and the stress of cornering.)That being said I personally can't wait to try it.

[The Nutty Professor]

And the testing continues stirthepot . I placed another sample in the gas treatment and will monitor it from day to day. One thing I did not mention I again degreased the sample once it was removed from the container.

[swheels]

I just thought of something.How woulfd the chemicals affect the threads that help the tire keep it's shape?Becasue the stock tires are not steel belted.I also thought about what may happen to the rubber as it spend the remainder of time out of the solution?It's possible that the rubber might harden back and become brittle.I know acetone can have that affect on most petroleum based product.

I know it's still in the testing stages.

[The Nutty Professor]

I just thought of something.How woulfd the chemicals affect the threads that help the tire keep it's shape?Becasue the stock tires are not steel belted.I also thought about what may happen to the rubber as it spend the remainder of time out of the solution?It's possible that the rubber might harden back and become brittle.I know acetone can have that affect on most petroleum based product.

I know it's still in the testing stages.

I was thinking the same about the threads and the rubber I using has no steel belt. It must be part of a re-cap. What I'm looking for next is just the threads from the inside. I have some kevlar lying around that I think I'll throw at the test. If I remember right most tires use that as there internal threads now. I would think as widely as it's used even the chinese use it. I've taken the test sample and placed it on the shelf next to the "lab" and I'm watching it also to see what effect I get. It will be in a garage. I wanted to put a sample out in the sun but we ain't getting any of that for a couple days. If anybody has any other question throw them at me I can't think of all the possiblities. I would like to get this right or at least close. stirthepot

[The Nutty Professor]

Answering one of Swheels questions so far the rubber is stay soft and shows no sign of drying out. I need to find some actual threads instead of the kevlar I have. I have a shagged tire from my FZR that I think I'll treat and wrap to see what happens.

Test 2 is showing goods signs also but not ready to be removed from the treatment.

[swheels]

It's sounding good so far.thumbsup2

[The Nutty Professor]

First day of the new sample in the gas treatment showed nothing. The second day there appeared to be a slight change. On the third day there was a noticable change. One more day in and I'll take it out. There appears to be another candidate...the belt dressings. The biggest drawback I can see is the cost. There's not much in a spray can and you'd have to use a few to get enough to apply to a tire. Also it seems to ooze a slick film. After drying for a time will this stop dunno . We'll see I've taken it out and cleaned it now I'm letting it dry. If I can get more chemicals tomorrow after I do a little filming I'll start on the full tire. It's a used up Perelli on the rim. I'll release the air clean it and start. Poke12

[Blitz$M.Inc.$]

those maxxis tires are the ticket
you can really feel the difference in construction between those and the stock ones

[The Nutty Professor]

Blitz I've been waiting for you, the real tire guy, to jump in here. I know it was the auto side but a tire up to a point is a tire. Question: The tire rubber I've treated has a property I haven't written down in here yet. I want to know if the Maxxis is even close. I was at the kitchen table typing some of this up with the rubber next to me. My wifes cat jumped up onto the table and started that cat thing of pushing (Really scooting it across the table) something around. I didn't pay her much attention until she batted it off the table. The rubber bounced across the floor (THIS IS NOT AN EMBELLISHED AT ALL) like a super ball. From the kitchen table to the laundry room were it stopped is about 20 feet (I measured it out give or take 5-6inches). I think I created qualifying rubber thinking_smilie . I think after a few laps the tire would be in shreds. The question is when you push a finger nail into the rubber can you make and impression which then returns back but you can see the outline of your nail in the rubber? Not a permanent mark just the impression. I know this isn't scientific but hey a lot of good stuff comes out of a wing-and-a-prayercowboy . It may be to soft with the length of time I treated it might actually slow the bike down with to much grip. But given the right amount of treatment I think someone can gain 1-2 seconds a lap without breaking a sweat. A person who rides the front might gain even more time?

[swheels]

those maxxis tires are the ticket
you can really feel the difference in construction between those and the stock onesYeah i've been reading on the maxxis the have a stiffer caucus to help the tire hold it's shape.The tires the i'm lookin at has the similar construction.the ries i'm gonna get comes in a soft or a medium compound.

Blitz I've been waiting for you, the real tire guy, to jump in here. I know it was the auto side but a tire up to a point is a tire. Question: The tire rubber I've treated has a property I haven't written down in here yet. I want to know if the Maxxis is even close. I was at the kitchen table typing some of this up with the rubber next to me. My wifes cat jumped up onto the table and started that cat thing of pushing (Really scooting it across the table) something around. I didn't pay her much attention until she batted it off the table. The rubber bounced across the floor (THIS IS NOT AN EMBELLISHED AT ALL) like a super ball. From the kitchen table to the laundry room were it stopped is about 20 feet (I measured it out give or take 5-6inches). I think I created qualifying rubber thinking_smilie . I think after a few laps the tire would be in shreds. The question is when you push a finger nail into the rubber can you make and impression which then returns back but you can see the outline of your nail in the rubber? Not a permanent mark just the impression. I know this isn't scientific but hey a lot of good stuff comes out of a wing-and-a-prayercowboy . It may be to soft with the length of time I treated it might actually slow the bike down with to much grip. But given the right amount of treatment I think someone can gain 1-2 seconds a lap without breaking a sweat. A person who rides the front might gain even more time?That sounds like me i'll ride the front tire hard.As matter of fact the brick i tried to ride on at my last trip to black hills.Seem to have a soft center and brick for the sides of the tire.I got post pics you'd swear from the pics that all i do is burnouts on my kids i've only done one burnout and broke the chain.Never done it again!

[Blitz$M.Inc.$]

ok ill go mess with it

[Blitz$M.Inc.$]

ok heres what i found out
the maxxis tire will not hold air so it is deflated but still on the rim
i dont have long enough finger nails so i used an awl
first i poked it a little, and it left a dimple that quickly faded
then i poked harder and was similar
then i poked pretty hard and i heard a pop as it went through like the surface
it also leveled out but you could see the spot
then i grabbed some 150 grit sandpaper and sanded a spot for a min and all it did was mess up the sandpaper, i was expecting some rubber but nope
the sanded spot did feel real sticky afterward, maybe just cuz it was warmed up
is there anything else i can do glenn?
i didnt bother testing the stock tire
i really cant tell between the two on the road surface but the maxxis is way thicker in the sidewall, its also curved wickedly

[125ccCrazy]

I'm guessing that you are looking for something to soften the tire to make it stickier for traction?? keep in mind that if it softens the rubber it may deteriorate it, dry it out after a while.....I know VHT makes a tire softener for drag racing, not sure about price but it is made to do this without ruining the tire.....anything that is petrolium based is bad for rubber...just my worthless 2 cents

[The Nutty Professor]

Just to keep everyone updated I've stepped into a pile at this point. I actually have something that works...but it's not good for your health. I was in the final steps when I thought I was going to lose my lunch. I had the area venilated but obviously not enough speechless33 A set of Pirelli's I had taken off my FZR where totally roasted. The rubber was dry and cracking well look at the photo's and you'll see what I mean. That's the front tire. I also treated the rear tire with a different treatment and it was better but I'm not comfortable with the formula. I think it might make the tire a little to slick. I have to find a way to clean the residue off. The final two steps are a ways off but I'm getting there. The last photo is the treatment on the tire. It's still real wet but once it drys it doesn't even look like the same tire. Will it dry out the tire :confused: I don't see it as a problem considering this is for race tires. They will be used up long before they dry out. Even if they did re-treating them should solve that problem. The beat goes on. stirthepot