Can i have a turn?

[swheels]

Ok i'm starting this thread in hopes that people will learn more about hussling there bikes around the turns,and when i say people learning this includes myself.I'm always eager to learn more about becoming faster and a better rider.But i'm really hoping that the Nutty professor and Red really jump in here.They are experts at explaining and have TONS of knowledge so fellas jump in with both feets.

I will start by saying 1 being comfortable with your bike.2 knowing the limits of your race machine.(IMO) If you don't know those to things then chances are you'll find out the hard way....crash.Theres alot of tricks out there ex: block passing,running a defensive line, running an offensive line,backing it into the turns(my favorite)and steering with the rear.(another one of my favorites).But stick around i have a feeling this will be a great thread i think.I hope it will help us all.
Even if you not a seasoned rider/racer please feel free to participate.You might know something that can help others out also.

[swheels]

UH nobody wants to give up some tips on track riding?Stop being stengy guys give up the info.dunno

[The Nutty Professor]

Swheels it's not that I don't want to give it up. I'd give whatever I thought would help, but it's been so long since I rode in competition I have a hard time explaining anything about riding. Once I get back on the horse then I think I will have something to say. I also want to see how what translates from 1:1's to this? dunno

[swheels]

I can tell you this the only thing mainly is the big difference in horsepower plus the little bikes being flickable extremely flickable.

I was ask by member on tips on taking the corners.Plus i thought it would be great to get input from everybody but mainly you and Red.I't's hard for me becuase i change up as i need to depending on what the bike is doing.

[The Nutty Professor]

You ride like I do then. It's a feel thing and it's hard to explain sometimes. When the front goes I move my body to compensate but how exactly I did it I have to think hard to tell someone. The other day I was riding my bike and hit a patch of dirt and the backend slipped I throw my weight to counterbalance but to tell you how dunno . That's how I corner. I know the principles and I can follow direction from a coach but I can't necessarily be one.

[Blitz$M.Inc.$]

well i have no idea
i do notice tho when im commin to a turn and i down shift, it will chirp the back wheel
it sounds cool but i know its bad to break traction around a turn
what can i do cuz this will happen at VIR with all those turns

[The Nutty Professor]

The chirp means your revs have fallin off. That's why you pull in the clutch blip the throttle and release the clutch. The revs (Rotation of the clutch assemble) will then (Or should be) above the rotation of the rear and it should free wheel (I know it's not freewheelin') through the turn and done right as you ease into the throttle at the apex or just before it should be a seamless steady pull of power. The best rider I've ever seen do this wasn't Rossi it was the wild child Anthony Gobert. That guy was... dunno inhuman on the throttle. And he proves most true geniuses can't control themselves. ausflag

[swheels]

LOL i pretty much do it to Blitz i'm guilty as charged.If it's a sharp turn, if i have to drop into 2nd gear then i'll lean the bike just alittle then drop the clutch.So when the back wheel locks for that one second.Just enough so it will get the bike sideways very little then i'd dump it into the turns.If you got no grip i wouldn't suggest doing this.I tried that technique again on my 2nd trip to black hills.The tires i had on had no grip what so ever.So i went into the first turn you know thinking i was gonna do like the last time.The bike got completely sideways speechless33 i thought oooh boy this it.I manage to save it and i took of to the next turn then tip toed around it.Went to the pits and swapped out the tire.

[The Nutty Professor]

I'm posting a thread of my TT area (That I hope to ride) and in it shows running a few lines and setting up for the next corner. As soon as I get the video's onto youtube I'll start the thread.

[The Nutty Professor]

I don't know how many of you have old AMA, WSBK, or 500GP video's lying around? If you can get any video of Anthony Gobert during a race-WATCH IT bows_smilie This an interview, or part of it with Troy Bayliss' WSBK Crewchief Ernesto Marinelli. He ushered in the Ducati era of traction control when Troy Bayliss was blowing everyone into the weeds. It was not all traction control, Troy rides like a man possessed, but even Marinelli states Gobert was the best he's seen "ever".

Q You got to work initially with Anthony Gobert. I don't know if anyone has ever asked you what your feelings were on that period and working with Anthony?

A Well, for me, I think it was the best experience I've done in my life. I was shot to the States alone, so you're in a different country, you have an old team that is related to you. At that time, I only had, I would say, two and a half years of experience. So it was a pretty big gamble. I remember that I used to sleep very little, constantly thinking about everything. But if I look back, for sure, those three years really built up my experience and myself like nothing else did. Because you are the reference person. You have to learn, react quick on every aspect. Not only on the electronic stuff, on the fuel mapping, or whatever, but also on the setup, how even the mechanics who work on the bike, or take a look at the very 360 degrees picture of the bike. Plus, of course, it was the occasion to learn English perfectly, that in this job is so important. If you only do it occasionally during the race weekend, it is not like it builds you up completely as three full years there.

Q What did you think at the time, working with Anthony Gobert?

A Well, I have a lot of episodes that I remember of Anthony. He still, I think, is one of the most talented riders that I ever met. I still remember his record at Daytona, and Laguna Seca. I used to run and see him around the corners. I think the thing that really is not so easy to find, that's for sure.

Q His riding ability was it concentrated in one area, did you think, or was it just the overall package?

A The overall package. I see him doing things from the entrance, to the middle of the corner, to the exit. Back in '98, he was using the rear brake just to control the sliding of the bike on the entry, then he would keep using it like a computer in the middle of the corner to correct the line, and then he was using it, too, on the exit, to control the traction. I remember at Laguna when he set the record, that I went down to Turn 11, watching him, and he'd hold the bike at the rev limiter for like a second and a half, and then he just went in with the bike sideways completely, and with the bike that never stopped being sideways, let off the brake, hit the throttle, and slide to the exit, wheelieing. In such a smooth way that it was really amazing.

Q Some of his former engineers say that Anthony Gobert was traction control before there was traction control. Do you agree?

A Exactly. Yeah. I agree. I agree.

rock2 ausflag

[swheels]

I was thinking of putting on my back brakes.Then setup them up so they work off of the front caliper along with fronts.I would make sure that i was able to dial out the back brakes as needed.It's getting to close to race time now for me to be making drastic changes and then learning to adjust.

[redryderaus]

Good interview. Everyone should take note of Ernesto's comments about Gobert's use of the rear brake. It's a control device rather than a braking device. Gobert's skill with it came from his moto-x background.

After Mick Doohan had the accident that locked his right ankle and he couldn't use the normal rear brake pedal his engineers went to great lengths to create a thumb operated rear brake. That is how important it is to top riders. Anybody who thinks the rear brake is useless and can be removed..... dunno

Cheers,

[swheels]

The only problem is with these little bikes everything happens so fast.PLus the engine braking can slow the bike down so much it can pist you off.Well me but that's something i got to work on more.LOL I was thinking of adding my back brakes so i wouldn't have to rely on engine braking so much.Then i'd have learn a few things all over again like the coordination aspects between clutch release front brakes rear brakes back on power.With the big bikes you get alot more braking distance to work everything out.The little bikes you might get over 15 feet if your lucky for braking.And i think that's even to long man this is to much for to think about brains hurt. I don't think i'm coordinated enough to feather the clutch smoothly on entry to any turn.Thats one of the main reasons why i'll charge a turn as hard as i can then dump the clutch.LOL

[The Nutty Professor]

Red the rear thumb brake is another reason I picked the X22 as my ride. Does it have one? No, but it's setup to easily install one. I have been thinking through a riding technique with a CVT that has a thumb brake as a major asset. Swheels there was a rider a couple WSBK seasons ago named John Kosinski and he freewheeled through turns. He charged the corner and pulled the clutch in until his acceleration point. He then feed the power on by releasing the clutch. I think this technique had alot to do with his 2 smoke beginnings. He was 250 GP world champ on the King Kenny team. I think I still have the video of his win at Assen on the Castrol Honda RC45. His control through one of the faster off camber corners was something I have never seen before or since. I've never even seen Rossi pull something like this. I think were others were regulating the throttle he was free-riding and giving it throttle as soon as he felt he had a little traction. He was running people down like they were sitting at a marshals station having afternoon tea.

[swheels]

Heres a prime example on how not to take a turn.The guy on the superbike has more power and potentially the fastest bike of the three.But because he's not shifting his body weight or taking the right lines to get him setup for the next turn.This is what happens.This i do know when dealing with multiple turns.Even if your about to approach one turn.You have to set up for the next even before you enter the first one.You have to always think in multiple steps ahead.

This is probaly this guys first time riding or racing learn from this vid.armyguy
YouTube - Pocket bikes racing

[The Nutty Professor]

If anybody laugh's I'll get well...really mad...maybe...maybe not. Anyway my dad bought my daughter one of those battery powered scooter's by Razor (Yes the pink one). I was just generally being a terror when I started trying out a few things. Realizing the sitting position is totally different I still was able to practice a few old things.When entering a corner you set up long before you get there. But what if you're racing and you need to change your line for whatever reason. This is how I tightened my line. It's hard to explain but here it goes. As I turn into the corner I set, one butt cheek on one off. Up on the balls of my feet on the peg. To tighten the line I scoot my butt back in the seat farther and scoot of the bike (? it's a feel thing I can't tell you how much). It then feels like I'm pulling up on the bars like I'm trying to wheelie. Of course you can't lift the bike but I think I'm no longer counter-steering at this point I'm actually turning the tire into the corner. Doing this manuver to fast or with to much input is a lowside waiting to happen. I also feel like I'm pushing down with the inside leg on the peg. One last thing this is a medium to high speed thing at slow speed the front will fold everytime or at least for me it does.

[kevin@holeshotz]

well i have no idea
i do notice tho when im commin to a turn and i down shift, it will chirp the back wheel
it sounds cool but i know its bad to break traction around a turn
what can i do cuz this will happen at VIR with all those turns

One of the most important aspect of cornering is clutch and brake control. If you just dump the clutch while you downshifting before a turn, then thats not good. Keep your hand on the throttle (do not just let go as in, keep that gas flowing so its less intense when you let off the clutch) and slip the clutch. If you wanna late brake, you cannot downshift then brake, you gotta do it simontanuously(sp).

Read this, do not back it in a midbike but the same rules apply for braking and downshifting.

http://www.supermotoracer.com/SMR%20Tech%20stories/iss2_backitin.pdf

[swheels]

One of the most important aspect of cornering is clutch and brake control. If you just dump the clutch while you downshifting before a turn, then thats not good. Keep your hand on the throttle (do not just let go as in, keep that gas flowing so its less intense when you let off the clutch) and slip the clutch. If you wanna late brake, you cannot downshift then brake, you gotta do it simontanuously(sp).

Read this, do not back it in a midbike but the same rules apply for braking and downshifting.

http://www.supermotoracer.com/SMR%20Tech%20stories/iss2_backitin.pdfThat was cool.Itsa gotta me thankin

[kevin@holeshotz]

When turning left (on a ysr/nsr, similar to your bikes) i have the:

-Right Arm at 90 degree angle (forearm parallel with bike, bicep perpendicular. This keeps you from being "crooked". You never want to twist your body in a turn and you want your body lined up with the bike itself, just over to the side)
-Left elbow bent putting my shoulders as deep into the turn as possible(Upper body makes up most of your weight, good counter weight here)
-Waist off the bike with half of my right cheek hanging on (Hip is another heavy part of your body, use it, but keep your body straight)
-Right leg keeps me on the bike holding onto the side of the bike (gotta stay on somehow)
-Left knee down (If you wanna know where your bike is compared to the ground, this is the way. Won't go into knee dragging but it does drop lap times, use it. If your ankle starts to touch, put your body into it more and lean the bike more upright)
-Head turned looking at exit and entrance of next turn. with tilt into the turn (your head is very heavy, especially with a helmet on. it makes a good counter weight)

Hope this helps. My form is not the best as i slip out of this form alot on the track. Some with the worst form have the best corner speed, so you never know. One thing to be sure is to know your bike's limits. When the peg hits, when the tires slip, how much throttle to give, when the brakes grab and so on. Your tires should sip a little if you are TRUELY pushing the turn. If your tires are sticking like glue, you are not going fast enough bottom line. Any soft tire will move a little in the turn, but it should never go out of control (unless backing it in). So ya, hope this helps.

bows_smilieKp

[kevin@holeshotz]

well i have no idea
i do notice tho when im commin to a turn and i down shift, it will chirp the back wheel
it sounds cool but i know its bad to break traction around a turn
what can i do cuz this will happen at VIR with all those turns

Found this and thought of your problem. Hope it helps

YouTube - Jason Pridmore's STAR School Onboard Clutch / Downshifting C

[swheels]

WOW that was great!yeah i need some work......I've been practicing working the clutch more.Gotta tell ya not looking good.lol

[The Nutty Professor]

The problem I have and have had is trying to do things to fast. Slow and precise is fast. Kenny Roberts says slow in fast out. cowboy

[Blitz$M.Inc.$]

was that a 2 stroke?

[swheels]

The problem I have and have had is trying to do things to fast. Slow and precise is fast. Kenny Roberts says slow in fast out. cowboyAnd that's the truth!I was working on that this weekend.There's one sweeping turn i always down shift to 3rd then immediatly i'm back on power.But for those few seconds i notice the bike slows down on my entry.(more so do to me dumping the clutch).Then i just staying in 4th carrying some serious speed.Real fast entry felt good until mid turn to exit.Pretty much nothing slooow coming out.Oh well i keep on trying.

[kevin@holeshotz]

The problem I have and have had is trying to do things to fast. Slow and precise is fast. Kenny Roberts says slow in fast out. cowboy

True, its not about how fast you enter hte turn. its about how fast you exit, thats all that counts. thumbsup2

[swheels]

True, its not about how fast you enter hte turn. its about how fast you exit, thats all that counts. thumbsup2I know the rule of thumb.fast in slow out slow in fast out.But i can't seem to help myself.The little voice keep telling push it you can do it.What are you holdin back for your riding like wuss.LOLcrazy_smilie

[kevin@holeshotz]

I know the rule of thumb.fast in slow out slow in fast out.But i can't seem to help myself.The little voice keep telling push it you can do it.What are you holdin back for your riding like wuss.LOLcrazy_smilie

Riding like a wuss is better then being out of control. Ride like a wuss now and you will become more confident in 2 weeks. The basics will help your more the anything.

[swheels]

Riding like a wuss is better then being out of control. Ride like a wuss now and you will become more confident in 2 weeks. The basics will help your more the anything.I'm all safety when it comes to riding with others for sure.If i'm alone i always push myself till i scrape the curb or talk myself into a lowside.bluelaugh When i come to race i'm going to play fair no dive bombing and things of that nature.I'm gonna put my best foot forward and leave the crazy foot at home.crazy_smiliebluelaugh

The race is all i could think about d**mthinking_smilie

[Blitz$M.Inc.$]

i think my family and friends are getting sick of hearing about it lol